Brewing without sugar

topic posted Sat, February 10, 2007 - 4:53 AM by  Oliver
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Is it possible to cultivate kombucha without refined sugar? Can a replacement like agave nectar or something be used instead?
posted by:
Oliver
Detroit
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  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Sat, February 10, 2007 - 6:07 AM
    Agave Nectar would be pushing it, Oliver. From what I hear, sugar is an important constituant on which the organism feeds. That is it's food. So, if you want to EXPERIMENT and let us know, it may be wise to begin with turbinado - unrefined sugar.

    The sugar really won't matter in the end. For instance, I'm allergic to caffeine - even chocolate & decaf effect me, but the black tea product in the culture does not bother me.
    • Re: Brewing without sugar

      Mon, May 5, 2008 - 4:45 PM
      I have tried Honey with mixed results, brown sugar, white sugar etc. I find the browner (more molasses) there is, the more funk and sediment left in the bottom of the Jar. Honey has worked OK when used as half with other sugar. The best I have found is Maui Raw Cane sugar. A great buy at Costco 10lbs for $4.50. Can't beet that! Also, this sugar has a good mix of molasses, not too brown, not too white. Great over all flavor. I only use this sugar in everything, lemon-gingeraide is the best. --Dr. D
  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Sun, February 11, 2007 - 9:26 AM
    The yeasts really need sucrose to survive well. Honey or molasses are both sucrose-based sweeteners, but because they have all kinds of other stuff in them too, you may have mixed results. I have seen that brews made with honey (by people avoiding refined sugar) tend to mold much more easily, but some folks have had luck with it.
    Turbinado, rapadura, etc. are all less-refined forms of sucrose that will work well.
    Alternative sweeteners such as agave or brown rice syrup have other types of sugars that aren't as available to the yeasts for their food. Stevia won't work at all.
    • Re: Brewing without sugar

      Mon, February 19, 2007 - 9:12 AM
      My experience is that raw honey works well, provided that a temperature of 80-85 degrees F is maintained during the brewing. Had great success with this through the summer, then when it got cooler, I added a heater pad below my jugs, which helped out.
      I greatly prefer honey kombucha to sugar brewed, plus honey can be locally produced, whereas sugar is always coming a great distance.
      Of course, most of the tea I drink comes from China....have to get some tea plants going!
      • Re: Brewing with healthier sugar

        Tue, February 20, 2007 - 11:59 PM
        i like to use organic unbleached sugar
        and organic green or black tea

        it creates a fine food for the booch
        healthy babies and bubbling fermentation
        potent elixer with fiz and kick

        What goes in is quality,
        it produces a quality elixer.
  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Sun, February 11, 2007 - 3:42 PM

    I have had good results with a half and half mixture of white sugar and sucanat (very brown, unrefined sugar). I am told by authorities I trust that using honey is a bad idea because it contains other bacteria and yeasts that may interfere with the growth of the kombucha culture. I haven't heard anything about agave nectar.
  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Tue, February 13, 2007 - 7:24 PM
    ive been using sugar in the raw successfully....like i saw below, the culture uses the sugar for food, so there is little to none left when its done, depending on how long you let it sit.
    • Re: Brewing without sugar

      Mon, February 19, 2007 - 3:46 AM
      Got that down.

      Though I still find sugar companies to be very shady. Many use bone char to whiten it. They also have a scandalous history involving war, conquest, slavary, disease, addiction, insanity, lies, and corporate monopoly. From the cane fields to the obesity epidemic, sugar has been nothing but trouble. A lot of "raw" sugars are actually refined, then colored again.

      If there really is no other alternative, I guess I'll have to go with the sugar, but there's got to be some way the brewers of the past kept the kombucha growing amidst a sugar shortage or lack of local merchants.

      Anybody know if maple syrup stands a chance?
      • Re: Brewing without sugar

        Thu, February 22, 2007 - 6:22 PM
        I read a book that said.....
        The antibiotic effects of honey are a challenge to the kombucha.
        And to maintain and energetic culture you should swap buches out weekley and return them to a sugar tea mixture for "rehab"
        The book also pointed out that people have had a long medicinal history with kombucha that far predates refined sugar!!!
        Also all forms of smoke are detrimental to the colony.
        Some people swear that it loves the darkness!
        Good luck.........
        • Re: Brewing without sugar

          Fri, February 23, 2007 - 2:10 AM
          I have had success brewing with agave. I was just discussing it on this post:
          tribes.tribe.net/fabulousf...54a09f8bcd
          i'm know expert... but i feel like i have a good relationship with my scoby mommy.
          • Re: Brewing without sugar

            Tue, April 3, 2007 - 10:15 AM

            >Though I still find sugar companies to be very shady. Many use bone char to whiten it.<

            if you're concerned about this aspect (vegan or not) in sugar, just make sure you aren't buying CANE sugar and buy BEET sugar instead.

            here's a link on cane vs. beet and the refining process involved:
            www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qasugar.htm

            i have yet to use brown sugar, the kind with molasses. I have tasted a batch using this and it was yummy. Evaporated cane juice, turbanado and white sugars have all worked for me. I'd love to try sucanut but it's rather expensive.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Brewing without sugar

              Tue, April 3, 2007 - 8:17 PM
              I have substituted 1/3rd of the unrefined regular sugar with organic brown sugar and it is delicious. I am way in the shade of what the actual difference between sugars are except i know that the the browner it is the more molasses is in it.

              i think all sugars have molasses in them except when its white it has all been remved. Any one know the actual difference?
      • Re: Brewing without sugar

        Wed, January 16, 2008 - 2:24 PM
        I totally agree,
        but there are also (at least in Europe) organic, fair trade or directly imported sugars to be found. some are even refined but not processed and bleached, just the sugar cristals growing for the sugar juice. Look in a health food shop.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Brewing without sugar

    Tue, April 3, 2007 - 11:47 AM
    Currently I'm using organic, evaporated cane sugar from whole foods, $0.89/lb, but I often mix it up with other types.

    Turbinado, look closely as not all are incarnations are unrefined.

    Sucanat imparts a very nice flavor, similar to background flavors of ginger ale.

    Piloncillo works very well too and is very tasty.

    Piloncillo is pure natural cane sugar concentrated by boiling. There are no additives. In addition to being a food source as rich as honey. Piloncillo has been discovered to have some unique medicinal properties. It has the reputation of being a medicinal sugar and is prescribed for use in the Ayurvedic system of medicine. Ancient Medical scriptures dating back to 2500 years state how piloncillo [also known as Jaggery in the Ayurvedic] purifies the blood, prevents rheumatic afflictions and disorders of bile and possesses nutritive properties.
  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Wed, April 25, 2007 - 5:34 PM
    I've used Agave with total success... it's just so darned expensive!
    • Re: Brewing without sugar

      Wed, January 16, 2008 - 2:46 PM
      I have always heard that the mushroom needs refined sugar etc... but I just got a Kombucha tea of a guy of useded ONLY agava!! not only that, he actually has a factory here in Norway and one of the products is this very Kombucha tea with only Agava.
      the tea is lovely, alive and kicking without any poison or anything.
      I got very inspired, and an now growing a new baby, Agava fed.
      so far so good.
      though I am still not sure what are the amounts to use.
      • Re: Brewing without sugar

        Wed, January 16, 2008 - 11:07 PM
        Ayola wrote: ...I have always heard that the mushroom needs refined sugar ...
        >

        It's not so much that it needs refined sugar, as that the culture seemingly performs better with a high ratio of sucrose. Essentially it depends upon how you define performance. For myself, I prefer using a sugar that performs similiarly to white sugar but doesn't contain animal by-products or sulphur dioxide, like white sugar - namely, evaporated cane sugar. I consider it a healthy investment in the kombucha I'm producing for my body to allow for, perhaps, a slightly longer brewing period as a reasonable trade-off to much more harmful, and risky, high performance additives, like refined white sugar. Pay your grocer or your doctor - one preventative, one curative - it's all your choice.
        • Re: Brewing without sugar

          Tue, January 29, 2008 - 11:56 AM
          if people have been making kombucha for so long, even before the advent of refined sugar (this past century) what did they use to make it before refined sugar? cherries?
  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Sun, February 3, 2008 - 8:50 PM
    OF COURSE!

    I don't eat refined sugar at all anymore.

    I started my Kombucha with maple syrup and black assam tea and it's doing fine. It's never had any refined sugar involved in the process.

    I didn't use honey since it's an antimicrobial I thought it might inhibit the colony, but I'll probably try it at some point when I have babies.
    • Re: Brewing without sugar... palm sugar?

      Tue, February 5, 2008 - 8:58 AM
      At the Chinese supermarket, I've found some Thai coconut palm sugar... comes in a round hard cake with a texture resembling Mexican piloncillo cones, only more blonde. ... $1.29 for the 17.5 oz. cake. I'm brewing up a bucha batch now as we speak, using this unusual sweetner. It has a demure delicate flavor. Stand by for more news later next week.
      b!
  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Tue, February 5, 2008 - 6:35 PM
    Piloncillo only?
    Has anybody tried brewing with piloncillo as the only type of sugar?
    Thanks!
    Laura
    • Re: Brewing without sugar

      Tue, February 5, 2008 - 9:44 PM
      just got back from Mexico last week. I was with a large group. We used pilloncillo exclusively in the making of two large 10 liter vats at a time.... keeping 150 people furnished with the occasional glassful. Taste is rich, full-bodied, tangy.... as only evaporated cane press can be. Use it for the taste only because it takes longer to ferment.. Because it's my hunch that the buuch would have assimilated and metabolized refined white alot more quickly than the crystalized cane, especially in the tropics.
      b!
  • Re: Brewing without sugar

    Fri, February 8, 2008 - 2:24 PM
    Brown, raw and turbanado (sp?) sugars are all pretty much the same, they just take them out at different stages of refinery. Sucanat and Rapadura sugar are just dehydrated can juice, that is what I've been using with my baby for a while now and my baby LOVES is, growing faster! If you get the organic kind then you've got a little bit more chance of not picking up evil sugar company vibes. It's more expensive but its the only thing I use sugar for so I don't buy that much.
    • Re: Brewing without sugar

      Fri, February 8, 2008 - 4:24 PM
      I know very well that white refined multnational corporation supermarket sugar is Evil White Death.... but then I have a special pact with my chinese amoeba.... She eats it up, so I don't have to, and produces a healthful drink for me in exchange. So she gets what she wants, (an easier workload), ... and I get what I want... a great healthy beverage.!
      \
      b!
      • Re: Brewing without sugar

        Thu, February 14, 2008 - 4:05 AM
        one serious advantage to using sugars that have less of the mineral nutrients removed is that the tea produced is of a higher quality for both us and our SMOBY cohorts...akin to using unrefined salts where it is the small percentage of buffer salts (potassium.magnesium,calcium mainly) that make all the difference.
        but it still makes a great drink with just sugar sweet....
        • Re: Brewing without sugar

          Thu, February 14, 2008 - 9:18 AM
          I'm a believer! Now trying Thai coconut palm sugar, unrefined. .... only sometimes it's an availability issue.
          b!
          • Re: Brewing without sugar

            Sun, February 17, 2008 - 2:56 AM
            excuse me B...i should have read some earlier posts before i proselytised...

            great beard..........
            • Re: Brewing without sugar

              Mon, May 5, 2008 - 5:23 PM
              Here it is May already.

              Yes the palm sugar works great... and without the stigma of additives, etc. Alot like pillioncillio but different.

              And as to maple syrup? I've been putting a splash of it in each 2nd fermentation bottle for an additional boost.... and the result is , yes, fizzy (but delicate-fizzy like fine champagne bubbles),... and lovely!

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